Monday, June 29, 2015

Can Someone Please Explain?


Now that the right to marry is shared equally by all under the constitution, conservatives and religious zealots are tying themselves into knots, furious that such a horrific thing should ever come to pass.

"We're heading down the slippery slope", they say.  "Polygamy will be next.  And then marriages based on incest and bestiality."  This is the end of traditional marriage.  What would the God of Abraham say about the abomination of polygamy?  Well, perhaps they shouldn't use that one as an argument for "traditional" marriage.  It seems that Christians abandoned the traditional Jewish practice of polygamy, and adopted monogamy from Roman culture (you know, the evil empire they so despised).  But they didn't abandon the tradition of slavery until more recent times.

So I'd like to ask Christians to explain why it is so important to follow tradition?  And exactly which traditions should we follow?  Surely the bible can't be seen as a guide, because it has some pretty nasty thing going, and many of those traditional practices have been abandoned as our society becomes more enlightened.

Then there's the issue of extreme anxiety or deep anger - a sense that the world is going to hell in a handbasket because gay people can get married.  It's as if we were all sentenced to die, or even worse - facing increased taxes.  But that's not happening.  So I ask, why all the fuss?  Why do you care if gay people get married?  Does this mean that you have to divorce your wife and hook up with some guy named Bruce?  I don't think so.  Does it do anything at all to restrict your freedom?  Not unless you think breathing the same air as gay married people is an infringement of your rights.  If you think that, then I would suggest that you have absolutely no idea what freedom is.  You should have been born a slave.  You wouldn't know the difference.  And it would be a more traditional arrangement.

Maybe you just don't think people should be allowed to violate the dictates of your church.  After all, the church rules your life - why shouldn't it rule everybody's life?  It's an issue of morality.  The bible says that God's morality is written on each man's heart, but gay people didn't get the memo.  Their behavior is an unmitigated disaster.  We simply can't allow this.  We should follow Mike Huckabee in calling for all Christians to mount a campaign of civil disobedience.

Again, I have to ask, why?  Didn't your God give us all free will?  And don't you believe that by virtue of our free will we have the choice to follow his morality or reject it?  Isn't the whole idea of morality dependent on our free will, and our taking the responsibility to make the correct moral choices?  What happens if we no longer have the ability to make our own moral choices?  Who should get into heaven?  Does a gay man gain admission because he wasn't allowed to sin?  Or should you be refused admission because you didn't have the choice to prove your morality?  How does God know you wouldn't have entered into a gay marriage?  Can someone please explain how this is supposed to work?  Here's what I think: you shouldn't be allowed into heaven if you deny someone the freedom to make his own moral choices.

I've asked a number of questions here, and I doubt that I will ever hear any answers from Christians.  But whatever your answers are, I'm sure they're good ones.  If, by any chance, you are at a loss for words, here's a little help for you.

22 comments:

  1. The SCOTUS handed down a ruling that is surely a sweet victory for common sense and common decency. The 5-4 decision reflects the reality of the constitutionality of gay marriage as a foundational civil right. The 5-4 decision demonstrates the community's maturing attitude which has not only reached but surpassed the break-even point in public sentiment and goodwill to all people, no matter their sexual orientation. No longer can the religiose pretend that a philosophical difference of opinion on this matter is any thing more than the perpetuation of institutional religious bigotry.

    Let the deluded ones bleat all they like. Let them wear their persecution blanket and intone, "We'll all be runed [sic]". I say let the apocalypse begin. The quicker the Christians are beamed up to into the sky, the better for humanity all round on this planet.

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  2. The SCOTUS handed down a ruling that is surely a sweet victory for common sense and common decency. The 5-4 decision reflects the reality of the constitutionality of gay marriage as a foundational civil right. The 5-4 decision demonstrates the community's maturing attitude which has not only reached but surpassed the break-even point in public sentiment and goodwill to all people, no matter their sexual orientation. No longer can the religiose pretend that a philosophical difference of opinion on this matter is any thing more than the perpetuation of institutional religious bigotry.

    Let the deluded ones bleat all they like. Let them wear their persecution blanket and intone, "We'll all be runed [sic]". I say let the apocalypse begin. The quicker the Christians are beamed up to into the sky, the better for humanity all round on this planet.

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  3. I think God is working again, replicating my messages in order to make plain exactly what he thinks is the right and correct answer to Christian bigotry.

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  4. No, Papalinton. It's just indicative of what an echo chamber this site is.

    I seem to be the only one here "speaking out against bullshit" - rather ironic, wouldn't you say?

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    1. This would be a good opportunity to provide a reasoned response to the questions I asked. I'd really like to know why Christians are so concerned about what other people do with their pee-pees. Ans what makes you think God would give a rat's ass?

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    2. Head on over to Dangerous Idea, where I've posted links to three sites that more than adequately answer your questions above. No need to re-invent the wheel when the facts have already been so eloquently stated.

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    3. I saw those.

      Site #1: Church officials spout religious dogma about what people are not allowed to do with their pee-pee, and then call for all the minions to resist it.

      Site #2: The good old slippery slope argument. As I pointed out above, is it your contention that we should return to the biblical tradition of polygamy? If not, then who decides which traditions are worth keeping and which should be abandoned? Don't tell me the church has that right, because last time I checked, this country is still not a theocracy, no matter how hard you try to turn it into one.

      Site #3: Some of the most illogical ranting from hard-nosed Catholic propagandists I have heard. It puts forward this alluring bit of logic: "If God is Love, Jesus is God, and Jesus is the Word (Logos), then it follows that Love and Truth subsist in each other and a distortion of one will lead to a distortion of the other." Great, as long as you buy the premises. But your God is not Love or Truth or any of that stuff. Your God is a bigot who hates people who do the wrong thing with their pee-pee.

      Not one of those articles came close to answering the question I asked. And neither did you.

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    4. Deal with it. If I were to answer your question myself, it would resemble those articles (except for being not as well written). In fact, I might have even taken the lazy way out and just copy/pasted from them (while of course acknowledging my sources). My own view is practically identical to what was written there, so as I said above, "Why reinvent the wheel?"

      How interesting that you actually singled out in your point 3 one of the passages that I most admired in that particular article.

      In any case, consider your question answered. You may not agree with the answer, but it's the only one you're going to get. I'm not going to veer from the truth just because you don't like to hear it.

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    6. Precisely Plank. Deal with it. Gay marriage is a human and civil right now recognised under law. SCOTUS has delivered a telling blow to pathological Christian bigotry. No longer is it lawful across the nation to discriminate against gays. The only slippery slope I see is that on which all manner of Christian tripe is slowly but inexorably heading into irrelevancy in a modern community. The old paradigm of Christian hegemonic social control is coming to an end.

      Even the heavily-laden conservative Supreme Court bench has quelled the spurious and utterly contemptible nonsense emanating from the squeaky-wheel members among itself. I don't think even the NRA with all their guns can put back the scrambled egg of Christian thought on this matter now.

      Deal with it.

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  5. Here's another excellent article you really need to read, before you get too far in your premature celebrating. Be careful what you wish for!

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    1. Christian revisionist history. And a callow one at that. The singularly most renowned of all historical accounts, for all its faults, The History of the Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire, by Edward Gibbon, you know, a real genuine history book built on primary sources, simply marks Longnecker's account as little more than apologetic crapola.

      Your Longnecker citing is typical of the desperation of the religiose trying to stem draining of the theological swamp of its toxic miasmic contents.

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    2. Aside from revisionism, this article has some other interesting points that require a response. I'll get to it soon.

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  6. Surely it is not mere coincidence that the daily Mass readings for the past week (which were selected years ago for these days) have been from the Genesis account of the destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah. And today is the Feast of the Holy Martyrs of Rome (those whom the Roman Empire killed in a vain attempt to extinguish the Truth). However, today's Gospel was the calming of the storm, as told by Matthew. This beautiful narrative reminds us that we know for certain that, whatever foul attacks by Satan and his minions we may be subject to, the Holy Church will survive, and indeed thrive.

    Time for people of good will everywhere to reflect on the many times and ways the devil has tried to triumph over the long centuries, only to be thrown again and yet again on his belly to eat dust (Gen 3:14). Such a long and dreary list of wannabe destroyers of civilization, and not one of them successful. The current crop of militant atheists will inevitably join the list. "The gates of hell shall not prevail" and Behold, I am with you always!"

    If we survived Hitler and Stalin, we can survive Justice Kennedy.

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    1. Bleat, bleat, bleat. But as you say, "If we survived Hitler and Stalin", so too will we survive the passing of Christian demagoguery. Each step away from Christian supernatural superstition is a leap in humanity's progress towards living an enriched and rewarding life. And that's a good thing.

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    2. Before you rejoice too much in your "progress", you might want to give a thought to this. Especially this passage (near the end of the piece):

      The mindset that puts no brake on the power of the strong over the weak is the root of slavery. It is the inevitable corollary of the destruction of the Christian tradition. Slavery is the normal room temperature state of fallen man. It took centuries for the Christian tradition to beat it back and the victory has always been tenuous and provisional. Get rid of Christian influence and it will flood back.

      Enjoy your new-found "freedom". But remember, it's just one of Orwell's triad:

      WAR IS PEACE
      FREEDOM IS SLAVERY
      IGNORANCE IS STRENGTH

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  7. By the way, im-skeptical. Despite your snarky comment about Abraham and polygamy, a careful reading of Genesis would show you that in zero percent of the cases is polygamy ever referred to in The Bible as anything but a negative - nothing but trouble and misery results from it. In 100 percent of the cases, nothing whatsoever positive said about the institution.

    If anything, Genesis is one of the most powerful anti-polygamy texts around. So yes, the God of Abraham (a.k.a., the One True God, Creator of Heaven and Earth) would indeed have much to say about the abomination of polygamy.

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  8. I LOVE The Song of Solomon. It is a beautiful portrayal of God (the Bridegroom) searching out his beloved (Israel, the Church, the Bride), and their ecstatic union after overcoming all the obstacles keeping them apart.

    The best translation into English of this book is probably The Jerusalem Bible, which clearly identifies which passages are spoken by the Bride and which by the Bridegroom.

    The Song of Solomon is probably one of the clearest and most important condemnations of the abomination of homosexuality in the entire Bible. It definitively lays out God's plan of mirroring His Redemption of rebellious, sinful Mankind in the interplay between the human sexes, and explicitly shows why the clearly defined roles of the two sexes must not be violated or in any way diminished.

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    1. Just ignore the part about all those wives he has ... not to mention the concubines.

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    2. Incidentally, what kind of mind would see this celebration of erotic love as a condemnation of homosexuality? I don't read it that way at all. But if you find that massage where it doesn't exist, you must have it on the mind. You must be thinking about it constantly. Even dreaming about it. Just like Ted Haggard, who preached about it. Are you like Ted Haggard?

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  9. Actually, I never think about homosexuality at all, except when the media blathers on about it ad nauseum as it always seems to do. An alien being listening in to our broadcasts would think that was all we ever did think about.

    So no, I'm just being reactive here. I didn't start this. I was hoping that one good thing that might possibly result from the horrible miscarriage of justice last week would be that everyone would finally shut up about this non-issue. But that hasn't happened yet. In fact, I fear the opposite. They'll just move on to the next perversion. Mark my words, the Next Big Thing is going to be "trans" this and that. In fact, it's already begun.

    I think that I'll just announce that I am now a water buffalo. And who are you, you obvious bigot, to say that I'm not? After all, Justice Kennedy has declared from the bench that we have the constitutional right to "make our own reality".

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