tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-221547022510742794.post7231986980011905084..comments2023-06-24T01:15:34.627-07:00Comments on The Skeptic Zone: im-skepticalhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/08267710618719895303noreply@blogger.comBlogger2125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-221547022510742794.post-58578091137659410672017-04-05T18:53:51.991-07:002017-04-05T18:53:51.991-07:00if I really wanted active dialogue with them, I wo...<i>if I really wanted active dialogue with them, I wouldn't start out by saying "You only believe what you do because you don't consider what I say or you are brainwashed by others or yourself, and I'm open-minded and you're not."</i><br /><br />Well, that's certainly not how I started when I first showed up at Victor's blog (which was ling before you did. as far as I can tell). My opinion was developed over a long period of trying hard to have civil conversations with theists (and with success in some cases, I might add) But that's not what you mean, is it? You are referring to this post, right? OK, it might be off-putting. <br /><br />But if you disagree with me, please feel free to state your case. We don't have to pretend that we agree. You know my position right up front, and I see that you have stated yours, as well. None of this means that we can't carry on a civil discussion.<br /><br />And by the way, while you are unlikely to convince me about the truth of your religious belief, as I am unlikely to convince you of its falsity, that doesn't imply that I am closed to what you have to say about your attitudes or your reasons for belief. Perhaps you feel that you have not been indoctrinated. That may well be the case. Tell me about it. If what you say seems reasonable, I have no reason to deny it.im-skepticalhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08267710618719895303noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-221547022510742794.post-23684048230431462052017-04-05T15:42:10.402-07:002017-04-05T15:42:10.402-07:00In a previous post, you commented that you regret ...In a previous post, you commented that you regret not having more participation with disagreeing voices - presumably Christians.<br /><br />In this post, you state:<br /><br />"Sometimes, religionists seek to justify the certainty of their beliefs with arguments, as we see here, but they never doubt that belief, and would never seriously consider any arguments to the contrary."<br /><br />"If he wanted to be honest, he might agree that those atheists are are pretty sure about their belief, but leave a little room for evidence that they have never seen, but admit could exist. Mikey, on the other hand, despite saying that he is much more open to evidence, doesn't buy any of it, and never will."<br /><br />"For most Christians, it is simply the fact that belief has been so thoroughly drilled into their heads that it is an essential part of their identity."<br /><br />"And for the more philosophically-minded among them, they may understand that this life-long indoctrination alone does not provide a rational justification for their belief. So they need something more to give them epistemological cover...So then why not invent their own epistemology that is defined in such a way that their belief is justified?"<br /><br /><br />Now then, let's say I as a Christian pop into this blog and start commenting. Right off the bat, I know a few things.<br /><br />1.) You don't believe I will give your arguments true consideration.<br /><br />2.) You imply that atheists are open-minded and Christians are close-minded.<br /><br />3.) You state that Christians believe what they do either through indoctrination or due to contrived and convoluted justifications.<br /><br /><br />So right away, I know that anything I say will be considered the result of indoctrination, brain gymnastics, or failure to consider what you say. Simply put, the hurdles a Christian would have to leap just to even have a fair shot at having their own position fairly considered are insurmountable.<br /><br />And that's fine. I honestly hold similar sentiments toward the New Atheist movement and anti-theists in general. However, if I really wanted active dialogue with them, I wouldn't start out by saying "You only believe what you do because you don't consider what I say or you are brainwashed by others or yourself, and I'm open-minded and you're not."<br /><br />Just saying.Kevinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02593005679430527458noreply@blogger.com