tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-221547022510742794.post7109263129039472160..comments2023-06-24T01:15:34.627-07:00Comments on The Skeptic Zone: im-skepticalhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/08267710618719895303noreply@blogger.comBlogger8125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-221547022510742794.post-75184274336690304992016-01-12T16:08:08.915-08:002016-01-12T16:08:08.915-08:00There are all kinds of things that have no correla...There are all kinds of things that have no correlate in the most fundamental levels of nature. They are the result of complex interactions of more basic elements and structures. Living things are an example of this. There is no life "at bottom", but life results from complex organic structures and processes. Because living things have the property of self-replication, they can develop into still more complex structures. Living things exhibit behavior that we call intentional. They have mental function, despite the fact that there are no "psychons", as Victor would insist. If people do bad things, and they understand what they're doing, that constitutes evil, as we define it. But there is no fundamental object that constitutes evil. People also see colors, despite the fact that there are no fundamental objects that define color. im-skepticalhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08267710618719895303noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-221547022510742794.post-11616325092071587912016-01-12T13:06:19.765-08:002016-01-12T13:06:19.765-08:00How can there be evil ("people do evil things...How can there be evil ("people do evil things") if it is not evil "at bottom"? It is either a fundamental part of reality (nature) or it isn't.planks lengthhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01176715815596833639noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-221547022510742794.post-85968452775014913562016-01-12T09:20:39.156-08:002016-01-12T09:20:39.156-08:00Another note on the existence of evil:
Mikey has ...Another note on the existence of evil:<br /><br />Mikey has pointed out another supposed incongruity in the remarks of Dawkins.<br /><br /><i>"There is no good and evil.<br />Except that religion is not only evil, but one the Greatest Evils in the World.<br />But that’s okay, because the existence of evil disproves the existence of God.<br />Meaning that if God existed, we would all be secular atheists.<br />Since we are not all secular atheists, God does not exist.<br />Since God does not exist, there is no good and evil.<br /><br />If you were as smart as a Gnu, you would see the brilliance of this thinking."</i><br /><br />If you were as stupid as Mikey, you would believe his lies. But if you actually listen to Dawkins, you would understand that this is yet another gross misrepresentation of his words. What Dawkins said is that there is no good and evil "at bottom", meaning that those things are not a fundamental part of nature. But of course, he agrees that there is evil, because people do evil things. But Mikey deliberately misrepresents Dawkins, showing once again, just how dishonest he is.<br /><br />It seems to me that if people like Mikey had truth on their side, they would have no reason to distort their opponents' positions. So why is Mikey so compelled to lie?<br /><br />im-skepticalhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08267710618719895303noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-221547022510742794.post-7361647940632003752016-01-12T04:54:24.701-08:002016-01-12T04:54:24.701-08:00"I do not know of any atheists who claim that..."I do not know of any atheists who claim that God's existence is disproved, let alone disproved on the basis of the existence of evil."<br /><br />Spot on. In the case of the question of God's existence, that which is asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence. [Good old Hitch] <br /><br />The trouble with apologists like Mikey, if you could reason with religious people there would be no religious people - <a href="https://www.google.com.au/search?q=if+you+could+reason+with+religious+house&espv=2&biw=1536&bih=830&tbm=isch&imgil=2SqppclEqr8SdM%253A%253BejtLHbHBqoUrYM%253Bhttp%25253A%25252F%25252Fwww.seabreeze.com.au%25252FPhotos%25252FView%25252F4927891%25252FOther%25252Fifyoucouldreasonwthreligiouspeopletherewouldbenoreligiouspeoplehouse%25252F%25253Fm%2525253D1%25252526p%2525253Dother&source=iu&pf=m&fir=2SqppclEqr8SdM%253A%252CejtLHbHBqoUrYM%252C_&usg=__daxjhlq4vDjnJHbmbeq-J1ZTJ0I%3D&ved=0ahUKEwje_NrIqKTKAhUS2WMKHRURCjQQyjcIJA&ei=NfeUVp6OCZKyjwOVoqigAw#imgrc=2SqppclEqr8SdM%3A&usg=__daxjhlq4vDjnJHbmbeq-J1ZTJ0I%3D" rel="nofollow">HOUSE</a>Papalintonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03818630173726146048noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-221547022510742794.post-52724721623079925372016-01-11T18:41:29.412-08:002016-01-11T18:41:29.412-08:00It is a naive position to take, and it is not endo...It is a naive position to take, and it is not endorsed by the people that Mikey is arguing against. Check his words: "the same atheists also tell us ..." Prior to that, he was referring to Dawkins (presumably - the one who supposedly said that religion is evil) and a quote from Weinberg. So even if it's true that some college student at Boulder thinks that the existence of god has been disproved, Mikey is still lying.im-skepticalhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08267710618719895303noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-221547022510742794.post-55267992084551252032016-01-11T17:14:42.146-08:002016-01-11T17:14:42.146-08:00Show me.????
How? These were face-to-face verbal ...<i>Show me.</i>????<br /><br />How? These were face-to-face verbal conversations. Not everything occurs on the internet. One time can remember well was at the University of Colorado in Boulder, speaking with a student manning an Atheist Club table (which was covered with books by Dawkins and Harris) outside a cafeteria. Another was on a sidewalk in London (lots of gnus over there!), next to a roped-off crime scene. The last one I can think of at the moment was at the family dinner table with an atheist relative, who actually used the very words I cited above: "The existence of evil all by itself disproves the existence of God." (or something almost exactly like that)planks lengthhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01176715815596833639noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-221547022510742794.post-4292358515454772152016-01-11T16:48:59.505-08:002016-01-11T16:48:59.505-08:00I still don't know of any such cases. Maybe I...I still don't know of any such cases. Maybe I'm wrong about that. Show me. But the fact remains that this is not the position of anyone like Dawkins or any other prominent atheist that Mikey targets in his diatribes.<br />im-skepticalhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08267710618719895303noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-221547022510742794.post-21840832034340980882016-01-11T16:19:48.660-08:002016-01-11T16:19:48.660-08:00This is a blatant lie. I do not know of any athei...<i>This is a blatant lie. I do not know of any atheists who claim that God's existence is disproved, let alone disproved on the basis of the existence of evil.</i><br /><br />Blatant lie? I have had atheists tell me to my face that the existence of evil <i>all by itself</i> disproved the existence of God. So at worst, it's a generalization. But "blatant lie"? No.planks lengthhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01176715815596833639noreply@blogger.com