tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-221547022510742794.post4797306954427334018..comments2023-06-24T01:15:34.627-07:00Comments on The Skeptic Zone: im-skepticalhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/08267710618719895303noreply@blogger.comBlogger8125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-221547022510742794.post-66874638624273800802015-05-19T13:01:50.699-07:002015-05-19T13:01:50.699-07:00You raise good points, and they deserve to be answ...You raise good points, and they deserve to be answered.<br /><br />"The people whom you are labeling "hypocrites" sincerely believe they are interpreting the words of Dawkins correctly, and you simply disagree with their interpretation."<br />- I would never call someone a hypocrite or a liar just because I don't agree with the way he interprets something. I hope you can see that when I say those things, I show what their hypocrisy is or what their lie is. In this case, I have explained why I think Victor doesn't practice what he preaches.<br /><br />"I've seen you (over on Victor's website) calling people hypocrites or even liars for using direct, word-for-word quotations from Dawkins."<br />- That's right. Out-of-context quotations, presented as misrepresentations of what he is actually saying. I listened to Dawkins in an interview recently, and he was struggling to come up with the right words. He said "I have to be careful what I say, because I'm afraid it will be taken out of context." He's right to be afraid. Because that's what people do.<br /><br />I've had discussions with Victor about this. I've pointed out where Dawkins presents a more nuanced expression of some of these things (such as the idea that all religious teaching is child abuse). It doesn't matter to Victor. He <i>chooses</i> to interpret certain words in the most uncharitable way he can. This is a violation of his own professed principle of charity.<br /><br />Why does crude insist that Harris favors torturing people? I showed one of Harris' articles that clearly states that he does not favor any such thing, but can envision a hypothetical situation where it might be a reasonable choice. This is not a case of misinterpretation. It is a deliberate, willful lie, and I don't have a problem saying so.<br /><br />"And you seem to have not learned any lesson from the experience, since you're engaging in identical behavior here. "Liar" or "hypocrite" are a strong insults, and should only be used when you're certain the person is saying something he does not believe. Do you honestly think Victor does not believe what he is writing?"<br />- Strong insult? OK. I don't make such insults lightly. Look at the comments of cl on this blog. He doesn't back up anything he says - he just slings the insults. I'm not like that - at least, I try not to be. If I am hypocritical, show me. Maybe it's true. Maybe you can succeed in demonstrating that I don't practice what I preach. But to do that, you have to start with what I preach. And I never said that insulting someone is out of bounds. If you do it, you should have good reason, and it should be tempered with a measure of civility.im-skepticalhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08267710618719895303noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-221547022510742794.post-2045336690910330112015-05-19T11:59:04.311-07:002015-05-19T11:59:04.311-07:00why do you refuse to interpret the words of someon...<i>why do you refuse to interpret the words of someone like Dawkins the way they were intended? Do you call that charity? I call it hypocrisy.</i><br /><br />Alternative explanation: The people whom you are labeling "hypocrites" sincerely believe they are interpreting the words of Dawkins correctly, and you simply disagree with their interpretation. Hypocrisy implies intentionally misreading them or twisting their meaning on purpose. I can't see Victor as doing either of those things, but as rather accurately conveying their meaning as he sees it.<br /><br />I've seen you (over on Victor's website) calling people hypocrites or even liars for using direct, word-for-word quotations from Dawkins. How can you make such accusations in those cases? I strongly suspect that your habitual name-calling was the primary reason for your being banned.<br /><br />And you seem to have not learned any lesson from the experience, since you're engaging in identical behavior here. "Liar" or "hypocrite" are a strong insults, and should only be used when you're certain the person is saying something he does not believe. Do you honestly think Victor does not believe what he is writing?planks lengthhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01176715815596833639noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-221547022510742794.post-26174838693072764212015-05-19T10:46:12.383-07:002015-05-19T10:46:12.383-07:00Victor says:
"For a long time when I was tea...Victor says:<br /><br />"For a long time when I was teaching introductory philosophy classes I found relatively few out and out atheists, but a lot more people whose main complaint about religion wasn't that there was a lack of evidence for God or anything like that, but rather that religious believers were hypocrites."<br /><br />I reply:<br /><br />Hypocrisy is not inherent to religious belief. People who don't practice what they preach are hypocrites. If you cherish the principle of charity in debates and discussions, then why do you refuse to interpret the words of someone like Dawkins the way they were intended? Do you call that charity? I call it hypocrisy.<br /><br />im-skepticalhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08267710618719895303noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-221547022510742794.post-1068039571382978992015-05-18T17:37:03.033-07:002015-05-18T17:37:03.033-07:00If he can do it on his blog, he can do it here as ...If he can do it on his blog, he can do it here as well. I think that he's one of those people who feels that he's in a perpetual battle, and would rather fight than argue his point. He can save that for Victor's blog.<br /><br />He actually invited me to his blog, quite some time ago. He had made a post describing what he supposed was some kind of supernatural event that he had experienced, and wanted me to comment on it. I postulated a mundane explanation for it, and was startled to see his reaction, which struck me as quite irrational. I think he has hated me ever since then.<br /><br />I still say he is welcome here, but I would like to hear him argue against what I say, not just attack me the way he does. That's pretty useless.im-skepticalhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08267710618719895303noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-221547022510742794.post-56304258087797734922015-05-18T16:34:13.628-07:002015-05-18T16:34:13.628-07:00You need to take a look at cl's blog. It's...You need to take a look at <a href="http://www.thewarfareismental.net/b/" rel="nofollow">cl's blog</a>. It's chock full of actual arguments, including premises clearly identified and conclusions that actually follow from them, and on an amazing variety of subjects. Lots of intelligent thoughts rattling around in his head.<br /><br />And no, I don't agree with everything cl says - but he never fails to be thought provoking!planks lengthhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01176715815596833639noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-221547022510742794.post-22358879023368272212015-05-18T08:08:14.813-07:002015-05-18T08:08:14.813-07:00The real irony is that you seem to think you'r...The real irony is that you seem to think you're smarter than John Loftus. I have yet to hear you make any kind of cogent argument at all - ever. Your commentary is entirely <i>ad hominem</i> vitriol.<br /><br />Here's a challenge for you: say something - anything - that shows there's some intelligent thought rattling around inside your head among all that hostility. Try making an actual argument yourself, including premises clearly identified and conclusions that actually follow from them.<br /><br />I bet you can't do it.im-skepticalhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08267710618719895303noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-221547022510742794.post-55860006301549926352015-05-18T00:11:42.402-07:002015-05-18T00:11:42.402-07:00What a bunch of sniveling, whining hypocrites.
LO...<b>What a bunch of sniveling, whining hypocrites.</b><br /><br />LOLOLOL!!!! The irony of whining about whining... hilarious!<br /><br />I guess that's what happens when you can't premise your way out of a paper bag.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-221547022510742794.post-65072718309096505552015-05-18T00:09:55.402-07:002015-05-18T00:09:55.402-07:00This comment has been removed by the author.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com